Animal Humane Society and TEN7 Discuss Drupal 8 Launch

JONATHAN FREED: Hello and welcome! You're listening to a TEN7 Audiocast. I'm Jonathan Freed and I'm here with Ivan Stegic, founder and president of TEN7. Hello, Ivan.

IVAN STEGIC: Hey, Jonathan. How's it going today?

JONATHAN: Oh, it's going great, thanks.

IVAN: You know, you never said what you do at TEN7.

JONATHAN: I am the manager of account happiness.

IVAN: Isn't that great? I love it! What are we doing today? Who are we talking to?

JONATHAN: Today we're being joined by our friends from the Animal Humane Society and our special guests, Paul Sorenson and Maggie Flanagan. So let's go ahead and get started. Please describe who you are, your length of service at the animal Humane Society and a little bit about your job responsibilities.

PAUL SORENSON: I'm Paul Sorenson, I am the director of brand and communications and so I'm responsible for all of the marketing communications for the entire organization and all of the things that we do. I've been at AHS for four and a half years. It's the best job ever.

IVAN: Wow. So you get to spend your time with dogs and cats, right?

PAUL: Absolutely!

MAGGIE FLANAGAN: And I'm Maggie Flanagan, my job title is Digital Marketing Strategist. I've been here for about a year and a half. And, everything I worked on is pretty much related to the internet, so obviously, our website, email, social media, Google business pages, those types of things.

JONATHAN: Paul. Can you please provide us with an overview and some history of the Animal Humane Society?

IVAN: It's been a long time, yeah.

PAUL: Well, yeah, Animal Humane Society has been around since in one form or another since 1878.

IVAN: Woah.

PAUL: Most people I think, would know about it as a place to adopt and surrender animals and every year we take in about 23,000 animals, and the last several years we have found homes for an increasing number of them and last year it was ninety-six percent of the animals.

IVAN: That's an absolutely high number. Wow! ninety-six percent. I think a lot of people have misperceptions about what the Animal Humane Society actually does, so I'm glad to hear that that number is so high. What else happens at the Animal Humane Society?

PAUL: Sure. Most people know us for adoption don't realize all the other things that we do. We provide a huge array of pet services for people and their pets, so, dog training classes, we have a Kindest Cut Clinic that provides wellness services. They’re targeted specifically at people with limited means so low income families and rescue organizations that others thought for whom we can provide low cost services. We have Kids department that does programs that educate kids, classes in schools. We have about seven hundred kids that come through each summer with summer camps they come to day camp or all about animals get chances to interact with them.
 

IVAN: And you guys have recently been helping with the hurricanes in the south of the nation as well.

PAUL: Yes. We sent a team of five people down to Houston, Texas to support the Houston SPCA and all the work they're doing down there, and we are taking, also taking in animals who are in the shelters before the hurricanes. We're bringing them up to Minnesota, flying them up here so that there's room in the shelters down there for the animals that have been displaced by the hurricanes. So both hurricane Harvey in Texas and Irma in Florida and all the states in between we've been taking animals.

IVAN: Such important and wonderful work and you guys are a non profit, right? You don't get any, you're not a state organization, you're not a federal organization, you're a non profit.

PAUL: Yeah. We're a non profit and we're completely independent not not a part of the HSUS or the SPCA. We're a local, nonprofit organization, and we're really funded primarily through donations and through the fees that people pay to adopt and use our services. So there's really no government funding. It's all funded by donors and by the work that we do.

MAGGIE: I think Paul did a really good job covering it. One thing that we really focus on, adoption seems to be kind of at the center of what we do or at least that's what the perception is. However we do a lot to help families keep their pets in their homes. So in addition to like as Paul said, like training and boarding we have a Pet Helpline so that if someone is thinking about surrendering their animal because they're faced with a financial crisis or they’re divorcing or any other reason. We want to provide expert advice and resources for people so that animals stay with their families. So I think that's a big part of what we do.

IVAN: Lost and found is well that's another service you provide especially online.

MAGGIE: I actually had no idea that it was such a resource for people who have either lost their pets or maybe found a pet and looking to reunite with its family. So we get dozens of posts a day both for lost and found pets, and it's a really important resource for our community.

IVAN: I think you guys do a great job with that.

MAGGIE: Thanks.

JONATHAN: One of the most enduring stories that I have about the society is the one about Korea. And going over and knowing that the Koreans have a festival where they actually raise, prepare and eat dogs. And then you were able to take in several of these animals to save them from a fate of being served on a plate. When I first saw that I was just blown away and I really commend you for that type of an international action as well.

IVAN: Right. So it's not just national, it's international which is a wonderful footprint to have from Golden Valley, Minnesota, isn't it?

MAGGIE: Yeah, right.

PAUL: Not only to save the lives of those. The dogs that came here kind of bring attention to something that I think many people have no idea what's happening.

IVAN: Indeed. And you guys have been online for what seems like forever. When TEN7 and AHS started working together it was 2008. And there was a Microsoft ASP Classic site that was online. I know you don't remember that Paul, because it was before your time but back then you guys are online and animals and you had your own internal a pet adoption and processing, right? I don't think processing is the right word but it was maybe tracking the animals internally. So you guys have been online for a long time. Can you can you remember or maybe speak to the other states of the Animal Humane Society site when you started, Paul? What was kind of the status quo?

PAUL: When I started in 2013, you know the site we just retired about a month ago still had remnants of that code from the first I think the first site you guys built was in Drupal 5. And then at some point moved into Drupal 6 with some of the Drupal 5 code remained. They have been evolving for some time, but it was really a relic of a time before the age of mobile, and so we went through immediately after I arrived a process to graft on some more mobile compatibility. There have been about a little bit of, sort of a mobile specific site created by TEN7 to serve just adoption listings, but the rest of the site is really not very mobile friendly. And so one of the first things that I wanted to do when I got here was really address the mobile functionality and make it easier for folks on mobile devices to access all of our content.

IVAN: And I think that was an artifact of not being sure what we were going to do just before responsive design started to take off. AHS, as always been the case, has been on the cutting edge of technology in my opinion and so we tried an m.dot site before responsive was even a thing and that kind of got mixed up with trying to make you know the best possible experience for mobile users and and so it was certainly a relic as you well described. Lots of different moving pieces work there.

PAUL: Right. And we made it work. I think there was a lot of creative thinking that went into taking the you know technology that wasn't designed for the mobile age and making it function pretty well at least, as long as you didn't look under the hood, to make the site mobile friendly, given that there are constraints that we had in terms of budget and you know and time. It was a relic, but also I think was, it was doing the job we needed you to do at the time. But I think, you know, it was certainly when it came time to create Drupal 8 site, everyone recognized that we needed more from the website.

IVAN: Do you do you remember when we first started working on the site?

PAUL: We launched the site called Blue which was sort of a the grafted on mobile experience under the Drupal 6 site in early 2014. I think as soon as that launched we started talking about what would come next. I don't think those conversations started until about maybe 2015. And at that point we knew the Drupal 6 was also at its end of life, that sort of accelerated the process.

IVAN: Right and we never really considered Drupal 7, did we? We really wanted to wait for Drupal 8 to get the longest possible life out of the next site.

PAUL: Yes. And we had gotten I guess what nine years out the Drupal 5/6 site so I don't know that we'll be able to get another nine years.

IVAN: Ha ha ha well you know I guess you never know I mean nine years out of a site I think we launched it yeah that it's about nine years if you if you consider that the Drupal 6 site was really an upgrade of version and not an upgrade of user experience. We're just trying to make it more secure and address some of the issues we had, but yeah that was a quite a long lasting site.

PAUL: That's a record I don't think we're gonna break again.

JONATHAN: Speaking of user experience, the one thing I was really impressed about was the significant pre-development effort that was put into conducting voice of the customer research. Can you talk about the value and impact of the research and analysis on the construction of launch of the current site?

PAUL: You know for us I think, voice of the customer research really helped us confirm things that we have always believed about this site. I don't think there were huge revelations about things that came as a huge shock to us. But I think it was a great to go through that process and really confirm that the things that we thought were working well were actually working well. The things that we knew were challenges, were indeed challenges that the customers face. I think they identified some things that we shifted our approach to but it was really valuable I think to confirm our direction and helped shaped the process moving forward.

IVAN: So it's nice to have data that backs up your hunches and what you're doing, isn't it?

PAUL: And you know, we ran, we did a survey of web users, and gathered quite a lot of data, you know. That's always a little scary process when you put it out there and you're getting that unfiltered information of the users on your site. And it was gratifying to know that even though the site was a relic and had been so creatively upgraded all those times, people were really, for the most part, pretty happy with their user experience. And the things that we knew were challenges were actually the things that they thought were challenges as well.

MAGGIE: So, on day one when I started, we were talking about the new website, and the survey had already started and I think was closed, but I was so impressed with how many people wanted to participate in our new site, For me, it showed the value that AHS has in people's lives. 'Cause I never think would be so invested in a website, but I was really surprised that how many people completed it and provided honest feedback and really wanted to be a part of that new project.

IVAN: It's a wonderful set of users that you have, it's honestly some of the most gratifying content that you get from them when they submit answers to those survey questions. I actually have a follow up. It sounds like we were able to confirm what you all suspected, what you already knew. What we've thought all this time. Were there any big surprises, is there anything you can think of, Maggie or Paul, that surprised you that the data gave us?

MAGGIE: There was one thing that surprised me, that there are people who visit our site multiple times a day just to look at animals, and they're not even wanting to adopt. They're just there because it's their like feel good part of the day. You know, I didn't ever think of our site as like a happy news site. Our pages were providing a respite of some kind to people and that really surprised me because I had never, I'm not looking at animals unless I want to adopt one, or that's what I thought. So that was surprising to me, how many people visit our page every single day, just to see what they can see.

IVAN: I agree. I think that was my most surprising persona that came out of the voice of the customer was, we had a name for that persona and it was.

MAGGIE: Was it Annie Adopter?

IVAN: No. It wasn't.

PAUL: Was it Polly Pet Lover?

MAGGIE: Yeah, yeah.

IVAN: Yes, Polly Pet Lover. All that Polly wanted to do was come to the website to look at pictures.

MAGGIE: Yep.

JONATHAN: It sure beats what's on television now.

IVAN: The survey that you did before, you just talked about, but you also ran a survey after we launched the site. Was there anything you'd like to comment on about there? Was there anything you learned from there that you weren't expecting?

MAGGIE: Yeah. So it wasn't really as much a survey as it was just an email of "Let us know what you think." There were some really emotional reactions to the new site, and I wasn't expecting that at all. And I know change is hard but I just wasn't expecting the amount of passion that came through in some of the emails. There were definitely some oversights that we were like, "Oh, duh, why didn't we think of that?" For example like the declawed cat filter. That really turned people off, they thought that that was the decision we made and really it was just an oversight on our part. But so, there were things like the investment that people have on our website, it just continues to surprise me so.

PAUL: We spent quite a bit of effort after the fact, fixing things like the declaw filter which showed up repeatedly as something that people wanted, and it was not something that we identified as something to take out, an oversight. One of the things I really appreciated about working with you guys is we have a really rapid response in the weeks after the site launch to really address the things that had come out of that feedback, and that there were lots of positive feedback and then there were some feedback that was less constructive. And then there were some really great insights like the declawed filter.

IVAN: Sometimes you just can't think of everything even if you make lists and you check them twice and you do everything you want to do, you just, there's always something that happens, I'm glad we were able to respond to that adequately.

MAGGIE: Yeah.

JONATHAN: And that’s why we ask the questions we do so we can receive that information and be able to act on that data so that's great. Can you tell me your number one objective with the Drupal 8 upgrade was?

IVAN: Wooh. Number one, number one. Got a list of them.

PAUL: I had to think about this question. I think, if I had to put as one objective, it's that the user experience on the website match the user experience when people have when they come to the shelter. That it was as colorful and emotional and wonderful and warm and inviting and that they gave people that that same wonderful feeling that they have when they walk in the door and see the puppies and the kittens that they may get that from the website.

MAGGIE: Yep, that's exactly what I had written down so, nice chat. Yeah. Haha.

JONATHAN: And did the client and vendor meet that objective?

PAUL: I think so, yes, I mean one of the wonderful things about the content that we have, there's a lot of great visuals, one of the drawbacks of the old, the Drupal 6 site and the way that we accomplished the mobile functionality there was that we really incorporating the visuals in a way that was responsive and video and all of those other things that was really cumbersome and was not, didn't provide, I think as good an experience, that's how all mobile devices and we made some compromises and this new site allows us to really put all of those fantastic videos and images front and center and display them in ways that are big and bold and powerful. Helps us tell our story through images as well as pictures and I think that alone has transformed the experience you get online.

MAGGIE: Yep.

IVAN: I wish there was a way we can make the website furry and fuzzy in such a way that people would want to hug the site too.

MAGGIE: We could make it purr.

IVAN: Hey, you know, we could add that as an Easter egg. Maybe the website starts purring.

JONATHAN: Alright, that was great. Now, if you don't mind, I would like to move into the truth and dare section of our interview.

IVAN: Yeah. Let's talk about challenges.

JONATHAN: Before we talk about challenges, can you elaborate on TEN7's major accomplishments in the upgrade process?

IVAN: And maybe our whole team, I'm sure there's other AHS accomplishments that we can talk about.

MAGGIE: Can you ask the question one more time?

JONATHAN: Can you discuss the major accomplishments, both from the TEN7 side and from the AHS side as well.

MAGGIE: So, I know this might seem kind of odd, it's because it's not about the website explicitly but one thing that was really is important to me in all my working relationships is that you really get to know people. And this was the first time I've had my hands in website development in the way we did. It was huge undertaking and I had to learn a lot about Les and Tess and your team at TEN7, and it's really important to me to have confidence in my relationships with my coworkers and to have trust and I really, I mean we work so closely with you guys that all of the time to me, getting through this and learning about each other and learning how we work, that was a big accomplishment for me. So that wasn't just the website, but just in terms of our relationship and how we work together. Going forward, it means just a better working relationship. To me that was a big accomplishment of this project.

JONATHAN: Thank you!

MAGGIE: You wanna talk about the website?

PAUL: Sure! Well, a couple of things come to my head. I think one thing that I really appreciated I think speaks to that relationship, is that we have really ambitious ideas going into this and lots of things that we identified that we want this website to do and of course we have Cadillac taste.

IVAN: Pinto?

PAUL: Pinto budget. I think we found ways to sort of creatively prioritize and use your expertise and our expertise to come up with a way that really maximized what we got. And figure out help prioritize the things in this first phase and things we could build the infrastructure for, that would allow us to do initial stuff, but that would that also create a platform for us to do other things down the road. I think we asked a lot of you and this budget, and I think we got a lot out of what was a huge project but recognizing sort of the scope of what we're trying to do. Was that necessarily a huge budget to match our aspirations. So I was really pleased with what we were able to do.

I also think we, we thought and reinvented quite a bit of the way people interact with the adoption filters and lost and found pages and I think substantially improved the user experience despite some hiccups did the declaw filter but I think overall, the user experience in those cases which make up the vast majority of the interactions that happen in our website are much better now than they were two months ago with the old website. Again, we've laid the groundwork for some other things down the road.

IVAN: I have to concur with both of you. I really appreciate the human aspect of our relationship, and I'm very glad you talked about that Maggie, because I think it's important to our team as well. Not just to me but to Jonathan and Madeleine, to everyone that worked on the project. I think the only person that didn't write a line of code besides me and Jonathan, Madeleine, of the developers was Lex, and I think we was involved in some of the user experience work, and some of the setting up the theme, and I'm certainly in the solar search of the site. But you got more than two thirds of TEN7 touching the code and working on the site and on the design, and for us the relationship part is really important as well.

So I'm glad to hear that and from a technical point of view, I think we had some accomplishments in the upgrade as well. I mean, we upgraded major version of Drupal from 6 to 8. We implemented solar search which I think is giving better results to users. We certainly focused on mobile and then I think the functionality that I was hoping would really improve was the lost and found, and I think that part has improved as well. So certainly, in my opinion, there have been major accomplishments in those project. I'm excited for the groundwork that this lays for future feature updates and for the things that we're going to do.

MAGGIE: Yeah! One other thing I want to mention is I was expecting when we first started this to keep extending the deadline because of huge projects that just what you do. TEN7 was like on it with the deadline and we were the ones who kept pushing it due to other things that work. So I think that that's a big accomplishment that we were not only just I think a week out of deadline but that's a big deal.

JONATHAN: Thank you Madeleine!

IVAN: Yes, thank you, Madeleine! Yes! Well, I think that's a segue to the not so rosy parts, right? Every project has a challenge. I'll start with the fact that the project did take a long time. Even though we hit the deadline that we agreed upon. When you start a project at the end of a calendar year and end up going through the following year, and launching in the subsequent year. That's a long project! And so I think that was certainly one of the challenges. We had different project manager that started the project than what actually ended up finishing the project. And now the certain challenge. Maybe there are the challenges that we should talk about Paul and Maggie, what do you think?

MAGGIE: Yeah!

PAUL: Sure!

MAGGIE: I didn't realize how complex AHS' website was especially with PetPoint integration and figuring all that out. With how many and I can't remember what we call them in JIRA they're not...

IVAN: Issues

MAGGIE: Issues! Thank you! With how many issues we had, it required a lot of communication. Often we met weekly, we had conference calls but even then, with four people addressing the same issue, there were sometimes lack of clarification. Paul and I, we made this decision and we're moving forward and then learn that TEN7 didn't feel like they had the information they needed to continue so there was, I think communication, it just requires a lot of it. When we're all working on other projects as well, it's hard to remain laser focused on these really tiny details that in the end make a big difference to the user experience. So to me, that was the challenge, but I don't necessarily think it was a challenge that is unique to TEN7. I think it's just a challenge of having a project that's big.

One other thing that we've discussed a little bit is in our D6 site before, we had a little bit more control over some of the things we wanted to create, or some of the functionality we wanted to build in. And we've had to let go of some of that control a little bit so we rely on TEN7 more than we used to, to help us figure out how to build functionality in the new site, or how can we get around with adding custom code to something. I totally understand the benefit in having it be a little more locked up. But that put a challenge for us because we like to get our hands in that stuff. Now we just have to say, "Hey TEN7, help us out!"

IVAN: That sounds like something that came out of circumstance with Drupal 8 and perhaps with the design. I don't know the exact sample you're thinking of Maggie, and if you do have one, I'd love to hear it. Is there an example you can think of?

MAGGIE: Yeah! So before we were able to add CSS to a page, for instance, if we wanted to have, for some reason, you need design elements, or if we had an iFrame to embed or JavaScript to add. We have the ability to do that and we didn't, with the roll out of the new D8 site, so it's something we had to request. Now, of course, Les has put in our ability to embed unique code, especially because we want to use our D8 site now to host some of the event pages that we have. For instance, Whiskers World it has a totally different color palette than our standard brand colors. In order to use D8 site for those pages, we need to request a snippet embed. That's an example of how we're using the D8 site and we needed Les’ help on that.

PAUL: I think part of that is also a reflection of me in particular, given the work that I did with you guys, with the original sort of mobile upgrade back in 2014, knew a lot about Drupal 6. We have been using Drupal 6 a long time and really understood all the ways that all the pieces fit together. I think we are now at the place where I'm in a different world now and I have not have time to invest in some sort of comprehensive knowledge of Drupal 8 and neither has Maggie. We are learning a new platform and learn the limitations. In the cases that Maggie has talked about, Les has been great about thinking through what is a what's a reasonable way to accommodate a request. But I think some of this is unfamiliarity with with the new platform and sort of what is really a limitation, and what is really what we don't understand.

IVAN: Right! And I think that goes with any new platform that you start up on and as you know, we've been doing this for two years now with Drupal 8. I think we have a solid understanding but sometimes we slab and discover all those new things that have changed. We very much appreciate your patience and be able to respond in the way that do. As always, we're not trying to lock you in or any other client for that matter. Our greatest desire is to be able to empower you and every other clients to do what they need to be able to do.

PAUL: Recognizing I think too, that there are some limitations that are there for our own good. There are good reasons to not give everyone the keys of the kingdom. We recognize that. I think what the other challenges that we didn't anticipate would be the whole PetPoint integration, the website integrates the whole different system that has its own set of unique challenges. It can be sometimes a little finicky and unpredictable. We tested a quite a bit before the side launch but once you get real people using the site with all that real data in real time, no matter how much testing we did, we could have anticipated some of the things that popped up. We spend a good deal of time after the launch identifying and sort of killing the bugs that came through that process. Again, that's dependent on this whole other system. It works seamlessly ninety-eight percent of the time. It's that two percent of the time that was given us a grief.

So, we're 6 weeks out from the launch of the website. I feel like we have pretty successfully and pretty quickly managed to identify and correct some of the issues that we hadn't identified beforehand. I think we're pretty good shape. But again, it was ninety-eight percent fantastic. I think the other thing that is worth recognizing is that there was nine years worth of tweeks and customization that happened with the Drupal 5/6 site that we're now starting over. Recognizing just how good it was, given the fact that we started from scratch.

IVAN: Is there anything that we could have done to have addressed the two percent that were the challenges that you mentioned? I have an opinion, but I would love to hear if you think there's something else we could have done better there.

PAUL: I think we could have turned on and left on the PetPoint integration and looked at more data and more consistently. I think we did some testing and confirmed that information was coming through, but we didn't test in real time with real animals. The folks who used that on a daily basis. That might have uncovered some of the quirks.

MAGGIE: Yeah, for instance, we just discovered yesterday that rats, for some reason, weren't coming through. They were coming through the PetPoint API, but they weren't appearing on our website, and I never would have guessed but it had something to do with the fact that they were their scale is ounces versus pounds. It was just like little things like that that we're like woah. It's just these really small details that you don't even think of until all of the sudden you're faced with why aren’t rats on the website.

PAUL: There are so many things, so many quirks coming out of PetPoint and the way that the information comes through that we discovered late in the process.

MAGGIE: I think we actually started pulling in real animals a week before launch. If we could have done it again, I would have said "Let's do four weeks at minimum". That way, we could have seen what was actually coming through.

IVAN: Perhaps also involve people on the floor that were using the data in some sort of capacity as well.

MAGGIE: So we did kind of a soft launch and I asked different staff from different departments to do testing and I gave them different scenarios. I felt really confident that we had done the testing we needed to do.The highest traffic pages on our website didn't get the attention they need, which is the adoption pages. I think it was an oversight on our part. I think it was all of us.

PAUL: We were fairly quick to respond and get those things fixed and I think the people who use our side work are very passionate about telling us when something wasn't correct. Our staff is very passionate as well about identifying when there were gaps.

MAGGIE: But surprisingly patient. I just felt people are mad at me all the time for about two weeks. But everyone was really kind.

PAUL: There were some bumps in the road. I think back to other website launches I've gone through, there has always been bumps. There have been more significant and disastrous bumps in many other launches I've done in my previous life. Even things like we were really well prepared with our SEO and all the effort we put in to make sure that we didn't sync our results in Google. All of that went off flawlessly. I was really pleased with that. None of our links broke, there was content we knew like old adoptable animal posts that we knew we're gonna go away. But for the most part, the core content, even how our content is organized and created, all of those links continued to work which is a huge, huge accomplishment.

JONATHAN: In my role as the caretaker for account happiness, I would like to know your hopes and dreams for the site are over the next year.

MAGGIE: Right now, something I'm working is, as Paul mentioned before, including more animal photos and videos was something we really wanted. That functionality is there now so for instance, we have the ability to display up to five photos of animals on our adoption floor, but we're not doing it simply because of time and kind of putting a process around what that looks like. We're working on how can we now fully utilized the website’s new functionality. I really hope just even within the next month to get that figured out. We have even more photos of animals on our website 'cause that's really what people want. We hear that all the time, that they don't want to just see the one posed photo that we take here. That's one thing that I hope to accomplish in the next month or two.

We had discussed the ability for people to create accounts, and favored animals, and saved searches, and we kind of ran into a timing issue and budget issue, and so we set those things aside but I'd like to revisit that. So people feel they have a real reason to return to our website. That they're looking for their perfect match, that we're honoring the way they want to use our site. That's something that I'd like to start talking about again within in the next year.

PAUL: I think we did a great bunch of work to integrate our clinic site into the main AHS website. But there's still some functionality there that is still living in a separate sort of legacy. I wanna make sure we continue the work on that and get that functionality folded into the main site. Making Kindest Cut really integrating into AHS is one of our overall goals. We still have some work to do there. We also down the road in the next 12 months, all the work we did on the PetPoint Integration, we're looking at replacement software for medical records and adoption tracking and we' ll have to revisit some of that work. As we look at replacement software. Having replacement that works well with the website and has API that is non disruptive as possible is a priority for that. There’s exciting things coming with that may impact the way that we're able to share our adoptable animals online.

IVAN: I would love to hear more about that at some point, Paul. I have a secret agenda that I've always wanted to create a version of PetPoint that is open source that any humane society or pet rescue organization can use. Just keep that at the back of your head.

MAGGIE: The software that we have identified, that we've signed the agreement, everything. The thing that's kinda neat about it is we're building out the back end so similar to Drupal 8, we're able to have a little bit more control over what that interface looks like. Hopefully, that means that we can build it out in such a way it works seamlessly with our new website.

IVAN: That would be so amazing! Now I have the final wrap up question which is I think the most important question of our whole Audiocast. I'm gonna give you guys the options of who goes first. Paul and Maggie, the last question is Cat or Dog?

PAUL: The answer is easy it's cat and dog!

IVAN: I should've said you can't choose both.

PAUL: But I have two cats and a dog so I can't choose.

MAGGIE: Mine is not easy. I was thinking about this as coming to work and I was like "Man, I bet they weren't looking for me to like psychoanalyzing myself." I'm more like a cat. I've grown up loving cats. I actually think I'm more of a cat person but I think owning a dog has made me a better version of myself. I'm more of a cat person but dogs make me a better human. So how about that?

IVAN: That's awesome!

JONATHAN: Since we don’t have to ask Ivan, I can answer to the question. We also have a cat and a dog, and Maggie, I agree with you I've had dogs on my life and this one in particular has brought things out in me that I really didn't think I had. Really a terrific situation. Love raising animals in general but this has been really good. Plus I probably weigh about a 180 lbs more if I didn't have.

MAGGIE: That's what I'm saying! Yup!

JONATHAN: Thank you very much! That brings us to the end of this Audiocast and I particularly want to thank Maggie Flanagan and Paul Sorensen from the Animal Humane Society, and Ivan Stegic for sharing their insights. Please visit AHS at animalhumanesociety.org, and visit us at TEN7.com and keep an eye on the TEN7 blog for future Audiocasts. This is Jonathan Freed and thank you for listening!